Microstates

Boltzmann Equation for Entropy:

Moderators: Chem_Mod, Chem_Admin

ng1D
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:17 am

Microstates

Postby ng1D » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:38 pm

What is the relationship between microstates and degeneracy? Are they the same thing or are the number of microstates related to degeneracy?

Nathan Rothschild_2D
Posts: 131
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:15 am

Re: Microstates

Postby Nathan Rothschild_2D » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:39 pm

They are not the same thing, just related
W=X^n
Where W= Degeneracy, X=the number if possible microstates, n=number of available particles

Alan Cornejo 1a
Posts: 98
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:15 am

Re: Microstates

Postby Alan Cornejo 1a » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:15 pm

Nathan Rothschild_2D wrote:They are not the same thing, just related
W=X^n
Where W= Degeneracy, X=the number if possible microstates, n=number of available particles


This is correct, they are two distinct things but they can be related with an equation

Janet Nguy 2C
Posts: 115
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:17 am

Re: Microstates

Postby Janet Nguy 2C » Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:09 pm

Like what was said, degeneracy is related to microstates by the equation W = X^n; this is just because degeneracy describes all of the possible positions that a particle can exist in, so intuitively you would take the # of microstates to the power of the # of particles there are.

SVajragiri_1C
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:16 am

Re: Microstates

Postby SVajragiri_1C » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:37 pm

Degeneracy is exponentially related to microstates.

arisawaters2D
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:52 pm

Re: Microstates

Postby arisawaters2D » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:09 pm

In Lavelle's lecture from today (2/3), he talks about a 2 particle system with 4 microstates and says the degeneracy would be W=4=2^2. I'm a little confused by this, because in the discussion above, it says that W=X^n, where X is the number of microstates and n is the number of particles. So, wouldn't W be 4^2?
Last edited by arisawaters2D on Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lucy_Balish_3G
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:37 pm
Been upvoted: 1 time

Re: Microstates

Postby Lucy_Balish_3G » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:13 pm

arisawaters2D wrote:In Lavelle's lecture from today (2/3), he talks about a 2 particle system with 4 microstates and says the degeneracy would be W=4=2^2. I'm a little confused by this, because in the discussion above, it says that W=X^n, where X is the number of microstates and n is the number of particles. So, wouldn't W be 4^2 =8?


If the example you are referencing is 4 CO molecules, I think you just switched the two. Because there are 2 microstates for the C and the O (either left or right) and 4 molecules, you would find W=2 microstates ^ (4 number of particles). 2^4=16.

DMaya_2G
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:58 pm

Re: Microstates

Postby DMaya_2G » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:15 pm

Degeneracy is connected to microstates by the equation W = X^n. Degeneracy describes all of the possible positions that a particle can exist at.

MinjooPark_3I
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:33 pm

Re: Microstates

Postby MinjooPark_3I » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:20 pm

arisawaters2D wrote:In Lavelle's lecture from today (2/3), he talks about a 2 particle system with 4 microstates and says the degeneracy would be W=4=2^2. I'm a little confused by this, because in the discussion above, it says that W=X^n, where X is the number of microstates and n is the number of particles. So, wouldn't W be 4^2?


I believe he was saying that when there are two states (L and R in this case) and there are two particles, there are 4 arrangements/microstates/distributions which would mean it has a degeneracy of 4 (2^2).

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Norah Gidanian 3D
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:49 pm
Been upvoted: 1 time

Re: Microstates

Postby Norah Gidanian 3D » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:33 pm

DMaya_2G wrote:Degeneracy is connected to microstates by the equation W = X^n. Degeneracy describes all of the possible positions that a particle can exist at.


X would be equal to the number of microstates in this equation. n would be equal to the number of possible states

AJForte-2C
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:00 pm
Been upvoted: 1 time

Re: Microstates

Postby AJForte-2C » Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:43 pm

are states/micro states/atomic states all basically the same thing when calculating degeneracy?

Xinying Wang_3C
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:39 pm

Re: Microstates

Postby Xinying Wang_3C » Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:03 am

AJForte-2C wrote:are states/micro states/atomic states all basically the same thing when calculating degeneracy?

I think they are basically the same thing, just different names used in different circumstances.

Mursall M 2A
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:20 am

Re: Microstates

Postby Mursall M 2A » Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:27 am

Microstates are all the different possible positions a molecule could be in. To to find the degeneracy you take the microstates^#of molecules you have.

AJForte-2C
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:00 pm
Been upvoted: 1 time

Re: Microstates

Postby AJForte-2C » Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:47 pm

Xinying Wang_3C wrote:
AJForte-2C wrote:are states/micro states/atomic states all basically the same thing when calculating degeneracy?

I think they are basically the same thing, just different names used in different circumstances.

thanks so much! Just wanted to make sure.

Taylor Newville 1C
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:21 am

Re: Microstates

Postby Taylor Newville 1C » Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:02 pm

Degeneracy is the number of possible microstates of a system raised to the number of particles in that system.

Joshua Eidam 2A
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:58 pm

Re: Microstates

Postby Joshua Eidam 2A » Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:45 pm

I am confused about how to identify microstates. In Lavelle's lecture, he consistently used 2 for the value of microstates but I am assuming that is not always the case. In a given problem or example, what are you looking for when trying to identify the number of microstates?

Matlynn Giles 2E
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:10 pm
Been upvoted: 1 time

Re: Microstates

Postby Matlynn Giles 2E » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:13 pm

two different things but an equation can relate the two!


Return to “Third Law of Thermodynamics (For a Unique Ground State (W=1): S -> 0 as T -> 0) and Calculations Using Boltzmann Equation for Entropy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest