Indeterminacy in Position  [ENDORSED]


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Kelvin Chung 1C
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Indeterminacy in Position

Postby Kelvin Chung 1C » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:32 am

In the 10/14/19 lecture, Dr. Lavelle gave an example problem:

Incorrect atomic model: electron is located inside the nucleus of the atom. For the H-atom, the electron is then confined to its nuclear diameter.

He explained that the nuclear diameter would be the value for the electron's indeterminacy in position, or Δx. Can someone explain why this is?

Jainam Shah 4I
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Re: Indeterminacy in Position  [ENDORSED]

Postby Jainam Shah 4I » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:43 am

Dr. Lavelle was using the indeterminacy principle to show how the old model of the atomic structure was incorrect. Prior to the recent atomic model, many believed that the electron was housed within the nucleus of the atom. The electron could be anywhere within the diameter of the nucleus. Thus, the diameter can be used to represent delta x or the possible position of the electron. However when we used the diameter of the nucleus as the position of the electron we found that that the speed of the electron was higher than the speed of light. We then see why electrons cannot be contained within the nucleus and rather lie in orbitals around the nucleus with each orbital corresponding to a specific energy level.

Leila_4G
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Re: Indeterminacy in Position

Postby Leila_4G » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:47 am

So what distance does Δx represent on the electron level? The change in position between the first energy state and the second?

Alexa Mugol 3I
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Re: Indeterminacy in Position

Postby Alexa Mugol 3I » Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:04 pm

To answer Leila's question, Δx represents the indeterminacy in position of the e-, or the possible places to find the e-. Since we suppose that the e- is possibly in the nucleus, we would use the diameter of the nucleus to represent the uncertainty in position. It would not have anything to do with energy levels because in this incorrect atomic model, we assume that the e- is in the nucleus (so it wouldn't be in energy levels in this model).

Chantel_2I
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Re: Indeterminacy in Position

Postby Chantel_2I » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:19 am

Leila_4E wrote:So what distance does Δx represent on the electron level? The change in position between the first energy state and the second?

Delta X is the distance in which the electron can be found. For example, in the particle in a box problem, delta x would be the diameter of the box. In atoms, we usually use the diameter of the atom as delta x.

Sydney Myers 4I
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Re: Indeterminacy in Position

Postby Sydney Myers 4I » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:23 pm

Alexa Mugol 3I wrote:To answer Leila's question, Δx represents the indeterminacy in position of the e-, or the possible places to find the e-. Since we suppose that the e- is possibly in the nucleus, we would use the diameter of the nucleus to represent the uncertainty in position. It would not have anything to do with energy levels because in this incorrect atomic model, we assume that the e- is in the nucleus (so it wouldn't be in energy levels in this model).



I understand why we use the size of the nucleus in this problem, but my question is why wouldn't we use the volume instead? Or area? Why is the diameter the chosen measurement?


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