Spin state

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Funmi Baruwa
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Spin state

Postby Funmi Baruwa » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:06 am

What exactly does the spin state of an electron tell us about an electron?

Laura 3l
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Re: Spin state

Postby Laura 3l » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:37 am

Funmi Baruwa wrote:What exactly does the spin state of an electron tell us about an electron?



I have the same question. ^

Chem_Mod
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Re: Spin state

Postby Chem_Mod » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:05 pm

If an electron spin state is +1/2, it means the electron is spinning upwards/clockwise on its axis. If the spin state is -1/2, the electron is spinning downwards/counterclockwise on its axis.

Lorraine Jiang 2C
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Re: Spin state

Postby Lorraine Jiang 2C » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:24 am

Hi! The spin state (ms) is a fourth quantum number discovered after Schrodinger's wave function (which consists of 3 quantum numbers: n, l, ml). The spin state can either be (+1/2) or (-1/2). +1/2 means the electron is spinning upwards, and -1/2 means it is spinning downwards. And professor Lavelle mentioned that no electrons in the same atom have the same fourth quantum number.

Hope it helps!

Rob Tsai 2F
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Re: Spin state

Postby Rob Tsai 2F » Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:55 pm

Is upwards and downwards for spin states arbitrary or do electrons actually adhere to some sort of fixed direction?

Mirren Solomon Discussion 2G
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Re: Spin state

Postby Mirren Solomon Discussion 2G » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:48 pm

Spin of the electron refers to which the direction the electron's axis is on. We know that two electrons of opposite spins can occupy the same subshell.

Vince Li 2A
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Re: Spin state

Postby Vince Li 2A » Fri Oct 30, 2020 10:51 pm

While Dr. Lavelle did show us an image of how two electrons were spinning in opposite directions, due to how one had an Ms = +1/2, and how another electron had an Ms = -1/2, I do remember how he told us that because we don't know exactly what the electrons look like, we only say that the electrons spin because it works. I guess because electrons have a similar charge, if they had the same spin, they would repel. However, because they have opposite spins, it allows for them to be in the same energy state.

chinmayeec 2H
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Re: Spin state

Postby chinmayeec 2H » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:28 am

I believe the spin of an electron is related to its angular momentum. A lot of textbooks and diagrams model spin as being clockwise or counterclockwise; however, Dr. Lavelle said in his lecture that this is an oversimplification of what's really happening. For this class, I don't think it's very important for us to know exactly what spin is.

Hope that helps!

Kiyoka Kim 3C
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Re: Spin state

Postby Kiyoka Kim 3C » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:42 am

I believe the spin state of an electron tells us whether the electron is upwards or downwards. And this relates to the Pauli exclusion principle, where the electrons in an orbital must have opposite spins.

Dominic Benna 2E
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Re: Spin state

Postby Dominic Benna 2E » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:57 pm

Chem_Mod wrote:If an electron spin state is +1/2, it means the electron is spinning upwards/clockwise on its axis. If the spin state is -1/2, the electron is spinning downwards/counterclockwise on its axis.


I know that is what it says in the book and the diagrams Lavelle showed us, but what exactly does it mean by spin up if there really is no "up" in that electron space?

Tanner Bartyczak 1K
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Re: Spin state

Postby Tanner Bartyczak 1K » Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:28 pm

I don't think the "up" and "down" spins refer to actual up and down, but rather just to differentiate between the two. At least, that's what Lavelle told use we need to know for this class.

Brian Nguyen 2I
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Re: Spin state

Postby Brian Nguyen 2I » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:13 pm

The spin state does not exactly mean that an electron points "up" or "down" but it differentiates between two different states itself. This can be labeled as a +1/2 or -1/2.

Sheryl Ocampo 1D
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Re: Spin state

Postby Sheryl Ocampo 1D » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:21 pm

I think the two spin states refer to the different ways the electrons can spin on their axes

IshanModiDis2L
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Re: Spin state

Postby IshanModiDis2L » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:38 pm

Hi, as mentioned above the spin state is the fourth quantum number and it refers to the orientation/specific spin an electron in an orbital may have. If an electron spin state is positive 1/2, it means the electron is spinning facing up or clockwise on its axis whereas if the spin state is -1/2, the electron is spinning down or counterclockwise.

305572629
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Re: Spin state

Postby 305572629 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:39 pm

In order to check yourself and determine the correct spin state, draw out the diagram for each quantum number

Alejandro Gonzalez 2G
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Re: Spin state

Postby Alejandro Gonzalez 2G » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:07 pm

I think the two "directions" of the spin state are just to differentiate the two from each other, not necessarily up and down in terms of the axis line.

Manseej Khatri 2B
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Re: Spin state

Postby Manseej Khatri 2B » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:43 pm

Hi. I believe the spin state doesn't actually tell you how the electron is spinning, rather that the electron can have 2 different magnetic states. This is why if you shoot a beam of atoms that have unpaired electrons between magnets, the beam splits based on the "spin" the electron has.

Ximeng Guo 2K
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Re: Spin state

Postby Ximeng Guo 2K » Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:34 pm

I had the same question and thank you guys for the explanations.

Joshua Chung 2D
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Re: Spin state

Postby Joshua Chung 2D » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:30 pm

As others have already said, it refers to which direction that the electron is spinning on the axis. In short, it's just another level of specificity when it comes to describing electrons/electron behavior.

Nathaly Cruz 2D
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Re: Spin state

Postby Nathaly Cruz 2D » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:03 pm

Lorraine Jiang 3C wrote:Hi! The spin state (ms) is a fourth quantum number discovered after Schrodinger's wave function (which consists of 3 quantum numbers: n, l, ml). The spin state can either be (+1/2) or (-1/2). +1/2 means the electron is spinning upwards, and -1/2 means it is spinning downwards. And professor Lavelle mentioned that no electrons in the same atom have the same fourth quantum number.

Hope it helps!


Hey, this is actually my second time taking Chem 14A. This is exactly the way my old professor and TA's explained it! The spin state can only be +/- 1/2.

Jaden Haskins 2E
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Re: Spin state

Postby Jaden Haskins 2E » Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:26 pm

When following Hund's rule, do the electrons in each orbital all start with an upwards spin? Or does it not really matter as long as you know that pairs go in opposite directions and each orbital must be filled before pairing

Ravdeep Warar 2G
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Re: Spin state

Postby Ravdeep Warar 2G » Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:08 am

Jaden Haskins 2F wrote:When following Hund's rule, do the electrons in each orbital all start with an upwards spin? Or does it not really matter as long as you know that pairs go in opposite directions and each orbital must be filled before pairing

To my knowledge, it does not matter which spin direction you start with as long as you are consistent with it across each orbital before pairing. Correct me if I'm wrong!

Funmi Baruwa
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Re: Spin state

Postby Funmi Baruwa » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:46 pm

wait could you further explain what you mean?

MichaelMendozaD1F
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Re: Spin state

Postby MichaelMendozaD1F » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:34 am

will spin state ever be on a final exam? I mean will we have to give the spin state by hand to the sub shell level?

Jaclyn Schwartz 1I
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Re: Spin state

Postby Jaclyn Schwartz 1I » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:33 pm

The spin state just simply means the directions the electrons are spinning in their orbital. So in each orbital there can only be 2 electrons. And in that orbital, they are both spinning different ways. And to denote that, we have the 4th quantum number denoting that its either +1/2 or -1/2.

Jaclyn Schwartz 1I
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Re: Spin state

Postby Jaclyn Schwartz 1I » Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:36 pm

Funmi Baruwa wrote:wait could you further explain what you mean?


All that means, in each orbital there is only 2 electrons that are both spinning different ways. To denote that they are spinning in opposite direction we give it +1/2 or -1/2. It doesn't matter if the negative or positive comes first because all this number is doing is showing that idea. +1/2 and -1/2 don't actually have a set direction.

Hopefully that made sense and helped!


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