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Talia Leano 2H
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Postby Talia Leano 2H » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:08 am

Why can sulfate have an extended octate?

David Liu 1E
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Re: Sulfate

Postby David Liu 1E » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:57 am

sulfate/sulfur can have expanded d- orbitals; I'm not entirely sure why it happens, but because it has something to do with the d-orbitals elements in the second period can't have expanded octets, which is why sulfur is an example

David Chibukhchian 2G
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Re: Sulfate

Postby David Chibukhchian 2G » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:43 am

Sulfur can have an expanded octet because it has valence electrons in the n=3 shell. This means it can basically utilize the 3d subshell when bonding, allowing it to have more than 8 electrons surrounding it in a Lewis Structure. Keep in mind that this would not work with the elements that don't fill up the n=3 shell. For example, nitrogen has electrons only up until the n=2 shell, which means it can't use the 3d subshell like sulfur can. I hope that answers your question!

Madison Wong 3H
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Re: Sulfate

Postby Madison Wong 3H » Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:47 am

I'm not positive, but basing it on quantum numbers, I think atoms in the d block have quantum number l=2 and thus can have 10 electrons since Ml can be 2,1,0,-1,-2 and 2 electrons can accompany each of those, which would be an expanded octet. I'm still a bit confused myself though.

Inderpal Singh 2L
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Re: Sulfate

Postby Inderpal Singh 2L » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:13 am

As far as I know, it is because sulfate has d-orbitals. However, I am also still confused on why it is allowed an expanded octet. However, I think it may have something to do with the post being directly above mine ^ (-2,-1,0,1,2)

Cassidy Cheng 1J
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:33 pm

Re: Sulfate

Postby Cassidy Cheng 1J » Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:09 pm

Completely agree with the posts above me! But going off of that, elements in n=1 and n=2 can't have expanded octets bc according to the quantum numbers (i.e. n=2, l= 0, 1) they only have s and p orbitals, and they therefore only have 8 possible valence e-. Elements in n=3, however, have quantum numbers of n=3, l=0, 1, 2, and ml = -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, which means that they have s, p, and d orbitals. These elements therefore have the d orbitals (an extra 10 possible e-) that allows for the expanded octet.

Chudi Onyedika 3A
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Re: Sulfate

Postby Chudi Onyedika 3A » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:35 pm

Sulfur is in the 3rd energy level, which gives it access to the d-orbital. The d-orbital gives room for more electrons.

Colin Squire 3B
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Re: Sulfate

Postby Colin Squire 3B » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:47 pm

Sulfur has access to the d-orbitals since it is in the third energy level. Because of this, it can hold more than 8 electrons, breaking the octet rule.

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Re: Sulfate

Postby AlbertGu_2C » Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:26 pm

Any element past the 3rd period of the periodic table is able to have an expanded octet of electrons due to having access to more values of l.

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