ICE Box

Moderators: Chem_Mod, Chem_Admin

Sondia Luong 1C
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:01 pm
Been upvoted: 1 time

ICE Box

Postby Sondia Luong 1C » Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:43 pm

Hey guys, do we generally only use ice box for finding the concentration of weak acid and weak bases? Or would it be a good idea to always use ice box regardless of the strength of the acid when working through a problem?

Earl Garrovillo 2L
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:55 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Earl Garrovillo 2L » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:38 pm

I'd say unless you know for sure that you're working with a strong acid/base (i.e. stated in the problem) to just use the ICE box. It'd be a lot more efficient to only use the OH-/H3O+ concentrations when you know you're working with strong acids/bases but if you're unsure, using the ICE box would be a safe way to know you're doing things right.

Valerie Doan 3I
Posts: 98
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:03 pm
Been upvoted: 1 time

Re: ICE Box

Postby Valerie Doan 3I » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:50 pm

Usually, the ICE box method is only used for weak acids and bases because they don't fully dissociate in water. However, strong acids and bases do completely ionize so we can just directly use the pH, Ka, or Kb formula without having to do an ICE box.

connie ma 3G
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:38 pm
Been upvoted: 2 times

Re: ICE Box

Postby connie ma 3G » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:09 am

we use the ice chart for weak acids/bases to better visualize the changes that are occurring in solution. strong acids/bases dissociate 100% which makes the calculations very simple so we dont need the ice charts. you can definitely still use the ice chart for strong acids/bases if you want to but i dont imagine it will be as helpful and will only take longer.

Andersen Chu 2H
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:25 am

Re: ICE Box

Postby Andersen Chu 2H » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:52 am

You shouldnt really need to set up an ice box for strong acids/bases because the concentration of the strong acid/base should be a 1:1 ratio with the concentration of hydronium/hydroxide

Rob Tsai 2F
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Rob Tsai 2F » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:44 am

I think usually with strong acids/bases you don't NEED to make an ICE box, but I don't know if the question will necessarily tell you if the acid/base is strong or not. Just for simplicity's sake, I would probably just make one every time!

Inderpal Singh 2L
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:02 pm
Been upvoted: 3 times

Re: ICE Box

Postby Inderpal Singh 2L » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:22 am

You usually wouldn't need to use an ICE box for strong acids/bases. However, I believe that there is no harm in doing so.

Anastasia Yulo 1C
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:47 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Anastasia Yulo 1C » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:40 am

Hey! The ICE box is only used for weak acids and bases.This is because they don't fully dissociate in water.
Strong acids and bases, on the other hand, completely ionize. Thus, we can just use the pH, Ka, or Kb formula. With strong acids and bases an ICE box is not necessary given their behavior.

Emma_Barrall_3J
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:55 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Emma_Barrall_3J » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:13 am

Because strong acids and bases fully dissociate, the ICE box method should only be used for weak acids and bases as they partially dissociate. :)

Devin Patel 2D
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:18 am

Re: ICE Box

Postby Devin Patel 2D » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:25 pm

If you know for certain that you're working with strong acids and strong bases, you don't necessarily need the ICE box because they fully disassociate. So I would use an ICE box for weak acids and bases because they only partially disassociate and it would also help visualize those calculations better as they are not as simple as calculations involving strong acids and strong bases.

Karl Yost 1L
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2020 12:19 am

Re: ICE Box

Postby Karl Yost 1L » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:38 pm

Yeah, only use ICE boxes for weak acids/bases, as strong acids/bases fully dissociate — so we assume that the initial concentration of acid/base is equal to the concentration of [H3O+] and [OH-], respectively (assuming 1:1 stoichiometry in the balanced reaction).

Sukhkiran Kaur 3I
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:03 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Sukhkiran Kaur 3I » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:23 pm

Usually yes, so it would be a good idea to use it unless you know for sure that you're working with a strong acid or base.

DavidTabib 3H
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:06 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby DavidTabib 3H » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:38 pm

When it comes to strong acids and bases, the ICE box method is not really needed. Instead, a ratio is more useful since they fully dissociate.

Edison Tham 3D
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:25 am
Been upvoted: 1 time

Re: ICE Box

Postby Edison Tham 3D » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:54 pm

Strong acid and bases completely dissociate, so finding the [H+] or [OH-] concentration for a strong acid or strong base is fairly simple. For weaker acid and bases, since they do not completely ionize/protonize, we would want to use ICE Box to find the concentrations at equilibrium.

Javier Perez M 1H
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:52 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Javier Perez M 1H » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:44 pm

In terms of test taking, I recommend using the ICE box now in order to become more efficient and avoid errors during exams.

Jason_John_2F
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:54 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Jason_John_2F » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:03 pm

you can do it faster if you know that it is strong but doing an icebox every time will work regardless

SelenaDahabreh1D
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:47 pm
Been upvoted: 3 times

Re: ICE Box

Postby SelenaDahabreh1D » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:05 pm

I find ICE boxes to be the best way to determine concentrations, regardless of the strength of the acids. And it is always reliable, so that is a plus!

Dominic Benna 2E
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Dominic Benna 2E » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:49 pm

I think ICE boxes are especially helpful to use when working with weak acids and bases. However, I think it is just good practice to also use them with strong acids and bases, however, I do not think it is necessary.

Joanne Yuh 3I
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:42 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Joanne Yuh 3I » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:56 pm

I agree with what the people said above. For strong bases and acids, we usually don't need to use an ICE box because we are saying that they completely dissociate in water so we can directly use the log calculations. However, for weak acids and bases, we need to use an ICE box because they don't completely dissociate.

Muskaan Abdul-Sattar
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:19 am

Re: ICE Box

Postby Muskaan Abdul-Sattar » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:59 am

I believe the ICE box is best used on weak acids and bases! However, you can use it on strong acids and bases as well, it would just be a longer process.

Sable Summerfield
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:18 am

Re: ICE Box

Postby Sable Summerfield » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:28 pm

Can someone please explain why we need to use an ICE box when molecules don't completely dissociate?

Jose Miguel Conste 3H
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:15 am

Re: ICE Box

Postby Jose Miguel Conste 3H » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:29 pm

I would usually use ICE box to make sure all the steps I made were correct, it really is the most correct way to solve things even if there's something easier. I would use it to check your answer sometimes if you're unsure.

Anthony_Sandoval_1D
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:15 am

Re: ICE Box

Postby Anthony_Sandoval_1D » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:30 pm

For this class specifically, I would recommend using the ICE box regardless of the strength of the acid or base.

Arnav Saud 2C
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:51 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Arnav Saud 2C » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:36 pm

I think that most of the time ICE boxes are only necessary for weak acids and bases.

Armen_Isayan_2L
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:09 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Armen_Isayan_2L » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:37 pm

Hello! Typically, we only use the ICE box method for weak acids and bases because of the nature of the solutions and the amount that will dissociate is difficult to determine. However, we can still use the ICE box method for strong acids and bases, but it is not necessary. Instead, we could use formulas, such as pH, Kb, or Ka which is potentially simpler.

joshtully
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:36 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby joshtully » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:46 pm

ICE boxes are usually just used for weak acids and bases.

Jack_Pearce_2H
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:48 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Jack_Pearce_2H » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:48 pm

Use an ICE box always for weak acids. Acids will either be strong or weak usually so for strong you can assume 100% ionization, then just use ICE boxes for the weak!

Sofia Azmat 1I
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:16 am

Re: ICE Box

Postby Sofia Azmat 1I » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:51 pm

I would suggest using the ICE box unless you are certain it is a strong acid/base. They are particularly useful though when you are trying to pinpoint a change in the reaction over time.

Gustavo_Chavez_1K
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:46 pm

Re: ICE Box

Postby Gustavo_Chavez_1K » Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:54 pm

For the ICE method I think we generally just use it for weak bases and acids, and I guess if you are unsure on whether the base or acid is strong then it may be safe to still use the ICE method.


Return to “Equilibrium Constants & Calculating Concentrations”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest